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2WeeksOld
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It would be one thing if these remains were still buried, with just markers exposed. But if this involved my family, and the dones were exposed at the
surface, I would sure want them re-interred somewhere.
Also, having grown up very near the lake, I know what happens when word of something like this gets out among local high school students (or
supposedly "mature" adults, too). And while I know Dr. Nautica has the utmost respect for this site, there will be others who do not. Vandals,
souvenir-hunters, etc. It's not a question of whether this site will be desecrated, but of when.
Finally, I wouldn't want the exposed bones of my loved ones to become a tourist attraction, even if not a soul ever touched them.
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DrNautica
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cumberline
Leave the graves there is certainly one thing to do. What about the bones? Allow them to scatter, as they apparently have begun to do?
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Having visited the site (as you all know) I can pretty well attest that there won't be many bones found to relocate. Rather than having "begun" to
scatter, I'd venture that the scattering is in the last stages. The two, possibly three bones that were visible in the pictures are all that's to be
seen (without digging.) And even then, most of the exposed graves appear to be completely open to the bottom of the original caskets and wooden
vaults so its a sure bet there's nothing in there. I do find it interesting that, one of the large bones in my pictures was there in the same casket
some 5-7 years ago in pretty much the same place it was this past Sunday.
Sure, bones could be excavated if you really wanted to, especially if the water recedes further and some graves that possibly have never been exposed
are opened. But... it's not like there will be any bodies floating to the surface or anything like that.
I think I may repost the pictures when I get home tonight. just so all can see how little actually remains. In the photos, what in a picture may
appear to be the top of a casket, is actually the bottom board of the original vault which held the casket. Yes, there are caskets there, but all I
have seen are filled in with rock and gravel since the tops are long gone.
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quickiemonster
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| Quote: |
Have you watched all of "Fahrenheit 9/11"? You can't accurately comment on it or have a legitimate opinion unless you sat through it.
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I understand your point but am not sure I am in agreement. If I feel I know someone's agenda, is it necessary for me to observe, listen to, or
actively participate in absorbing their propaganda? I consider myself to be somewhat conservative and simply do not want to make myself angry by
watching this piece of art. I also do not think if I were liberal I would spend much time listening to Rush. Just my 2 cents.
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madcon1023
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Dr. N;
Thanks for the original post and pics. I love ancient history, but would not think of exploring or desecrating such a holy ground.
I think the area should be researched through old maps, and courthouse records to see what family or community used this area in the late 1800's.
I agree any remains should not be removed, but covered, and the area
marked with a nice placque near the upper water line.
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cumberline
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I cannot comment or form an opinion of any particular program, book or whatever generated by Rush Limbaugh. I can have the opinion that I do not like
the man nor his philosophy, from what little I do know of him and his agenda, which I consider as much propaganda as others consider Michael Moore's
works to be propaganda.
You can have the opinion about the author, but you cannot make a legitimate comment on a particular work unless you have bothered to read, watch or
listen to whatever that work is.
In the case of F9/11 cited as an irony in juxtaposition to my comment about Moore's point in "Bowling for Columbine" that US media (and others) have
been whipping our concerns out of proportion by fear-mongering, it fits. That film addresses the issue of why the US seems to have all the crazy kids
and loose guns, etc, while most other countries have the same crazy kids but little of the violence. He gives a reasonably clear line of thought about
how our (and our media's) obsessions with all of the reporting of every little incident in overwhelming detail appears to cause such overwhelming
anxieties in the public that it becomes a feedback cycle on itself, actually instigating further craziness and violence. It also points out how
politicians and idealogues are using these fear-mongering techniques to get the responses that they want for their issues.
The difference in the irony is that F9/11 doesn't purport to be anything other than propaganda, and Moore clearly stated many times that is exactly
what it was meant to be. He used the same fear-mongering techniques he described in "Columbine" to try to sway the American electorate --
unsuccessfully. Some of that lack of success came from successful use of fear-mongering by those on the opposite political platform to paint him as a
ideological devil. It all goes around and around, and the American public can barely keep a clear head because of the whipped up hysteria perpetrated
by mass-media of all persuasions.
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dekedok
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Cumberline psychologists call these techniques "operant conditioning" and were used successfuly recently in Toledo ,Ohio by a hate group (Nazi's)
who fomented trouble with street gangs.
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Knot Responding
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I don't personally listen to Rush myself. I think he's just a modern day street corner screamer.
I also agree that media glorifies and publicizes everything (crimes/unfortunate events/natural disasters) to the point of "Hollywood" penacles. I've
even alluded to this in other previous postings.
As far as Moore, I'll just leave those comments to myself, but will say I think he's very biased in his publishings.
KR-Too
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waterboy
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I have mixed feeling on this whole thing. A few weeks back when I made my post all I was trying to to was to find out the story behind this Island.
On one hand it is a place of rest for several and I feel it should be left "AS IS" On the other hand it is not right for anyone to be digging
thru what is left. I see it the same as if you went down to your local cemetery and started to poke around there. There are some things in life
that just need to be left alone. This is one of them.
The only down side to this is the 10 year dam project. If the lake is going to be this low then maybe ALL graves need to be moved. Does anyone
have a idea just how far down the graves go? Are we talking 10 feet of bank of 60 more? If anything the graves that are still inder water stand
the best chance of recovery and relocation.
Just my 2 cents
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BuckeyeFan
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Michael Moore is a JackA$$, and Rush Limbaugh isn't too much further behind him. I refused to go see his so called movie because I didn't want him to
get the first cent from me. I will never watch that supposed movie and I will never listen to the first word from him or Billary Clinton.
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Half Fast
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That dang Cranky has the best idea by a long shot. Them folks wanted to be buried there and nobody should move them so do like everybody else, when
the cover falls off of the bed, put it back on again. Thats kind of a subject where somebody says DUH!
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Cranky Coxswain
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The original material that has eroded from the top of the graves was soil and it probably washed away shortly after the lake was filled. If this site
could be covered with native rock material, it wouldn’t require additional material for many years and would blend into the surrounding shoreline.
If I had ancestors buried there, I would rather they not be disturbed anymore than they already have.
It’s unfortunate that this dilemma exists, but these graves have been there for well over a hundred years. We need to leave them alone and let the
earth reclaim their bodies where they lay.
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Half Fast
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If anybody messes with my remains after I am in the ground, I am going to haint 'em til death. 
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DrNautica
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cranky Coxswain
The original material that has eroded from the top of the graves was soil and it probably washed away shortly after the lake was filled. If this site
could be covered with native rock material, it wouldn’t require additional material for many years and would blend into the surrounding shoreline.
If I had ancestors buried there, I would rather they not be disturbed anymore than they already have.
It’s unfortunate that this dilemma exists, but these graves have been there for well over a hundred years. We need to leave them alone and let the
earth reclaim their bodies where they lay. |
I'll second, third, forth and fifth that. Not that I haven't already.
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Pogo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Half Fast
If anybody messes with my remains after I am in the ground, I am going to haint 'em til death. |
Well, gee whiz, Half, that would be like you weren't really gone! 
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
This is one of the only mostly intact coffins minus its top. It is filled with gravel and larger aggregate.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
Same coffin as above.
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RE3
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Said it before and will say it again..I'm with Cranky on this one. It is the most sensible and sensitive way to handle this situation. Doesn't take a
big study or investigation to right the problem. Just do it...
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
Though it may appear to be the top of a coffin, this board is actually likely the bottom board of a vault that once held a coffin.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
These two sets of boards protruding horizontally from the hillside are side-be-side graves. The boards are the side boards of wooden vaults with no
caskets in view.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
This photo shows the outer vault side boards and the bottom board of the actual coffin. Yes, there is one (apparent femur) bone in this grave. Who
knows if it belongs there or not? That's where I found it. I will remind everyone again, I did not/would not touch or disturb anything at this site
(except that my youngest son did pick up and disposed of a couple of empty plastic pop bottles further up the hill.)
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RE3
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pogo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Half Fast
If anybody messes with my remains after I am in the ground, I am going to haint 'em til death. |
Well, gee whiz, Half, that would be like you weren't really gone!
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You took the words right out of my mouth!
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
Close-up of same bone as above.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
Vault containing partial coffin and one single bone. Again, this bone was probably found scattered and placed in this grave by someone at the site
before us. I doubt that it is from this grave but is certainly from somewhere on this site.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
Close-up of same bone as above.
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DrNautica
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Photo of gravesite
This is the same coffin as the first bone picture. So, in all, I saw only two bones on the entire site.
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