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kdfwr911 (retired)
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Quote: Originally posted by Pop-O_826  | I'm thinking that by the time any firefighters got to my boat if it was on fire it would be way too late to save anything! As the crow walks, I'm a
1/2 mile of walkway to get from land to my slip! Taxes I'm now paying I don't think they ought to be asking me for more.
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I don't think anyone IS asking you for more. As stated in the first post of the thread, it's a voluntary subscription. If you don't want to pay it,
you don't have to and they'll still respond if needed. But you will be personally billed for the response in the event you ever need the service. And
whether or not they can get there fast enough to save your boat, hopefully they would be able to save your neighbors boats.....most of them anyway.
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E_HILLMAN
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That last part concerns me since if his boat is somewhere where their response would do not good why should he have to pay for a service he would not
have called on to begin with? sorry to stir the pot, just a thought... 
........................................___
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Buy Made in the USA, the job you save just might be your own.
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me.
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| Quote: Originally posted by Captain Bob | Thinking back to the fire at LFM about 7 years ago...
Unless your boat is within 100 feet or so of the ramp, I'm not sure how much help 15 firemen and 5-6 fire trucks are going to be.
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Probably not much Capt. that's why I said house fire, and also used a rescue situation as examples.
Don't twist my words to fit your argument.
\"The DIFFICULT I can do right away; The IMPOSSIBLE will take a little longer!\"
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Pop-O_826
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| Quote: Originally posted by denmarkshepherds | According to article if you DO NOT subscribe you will be billed directly for services rendred but if DO subscribe your insurance company will be
billed, but you will never be directly charged for fire service. KDFWR 911 would be able to explain this better.
Ahab, your on the best part of the lake...aint it worth it? 
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I thought at the first reading of this, that my insurance would cover this. So with the awful thing of having a boat burn up the least of my worries
would be a bill from the fire dept.
Just how much would this bill amount to?
WILDCAT PROUD BASKETBALL- DOING IT BETTER THAN ANYONE FOR OVER 60 YEARS
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: Originally posted by E_HILLMAN | | That last part concerns me since if his boat is somewhere where their response would do not good why should he have to pay for a service he would not
have called on to begin with? sorry to stir the pot, just a thought...
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I suppose not calling the FD if your house or boat is on fire would certainly be one of your available options.
E do you have a marine assist membership?
Since I know you do, then let me ask what the difference here is in your opinion? You have the option of paying an annual membership and not being
billed in the event you need the service OR not paying a membership and being responsible for the bill in the event you need the service. But either
way, we're going to respond if called. No different than with a Marine Assist membership, except that we aren't going to ask for your credit card
number before we respond if you're a non-member. We'll worry about that later.
One more quick question for you, do you have any idea how many fire depts across the entire country would have to close their doors if not for
subscriptions? I'd bet there's probably at least 1 or 2 in your home county that couldn't remain in service if not for the revenues generated by their
subscriptions. I know there's 2 in Russell county that could have never even opened if not for subscriptions, and one of them is only hanging on buy a
thread now. There's been times that they've had to pass the hat among the firemen just to put fuel in their truck because the small amount of tax
support they get from the fiscal court isn't enough to pay their bills for the entire year. 
This is my last post to this topic. Either you get it or you don't. 
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me.
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Agree.
\"The DIFFICULT I can do right away; The IMPOSSIBLE will take a little longer!\"
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splashngo
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Check with your insurance company. Most times the fire dept. will bill you and your insurance company will pay it. If a ambulance is called for you,
you will be billed. Also most times what the insurance don't pay, and if you are a tax payer with their city or county the bill is "wrote off". Had
this happen to me when my son was taken to the hospital by our city squad. Insurance paid a set amount and they forgave the rest. Was told at that
time the fire dept. also sends out bills for their services. That was 13 years ago. So if you don't have any insurance or bad insurance and don't pay
taxes to the county where your boat is kept, this may be worth looking into. Here in Northern Kentucky some police depts have started billing you and
your insurance company when they respond to an auto accident, if you are from out of state. I am with kdfwr911. Many of these departments would be
forced to close if we didn't support them in some way. There is some fire houses with ambulances that has brown outs in our area. Was a fire just the
other night that the nearest fire house was on brown out. Another department responded and took an extra two minutes. Don't sound like much time but
the Covington police officer that got there first save 3 people that might have died in those extra 2 minutes.
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: Originally posted by kdfwr911 | | Quote: Originally posted by E_HILLMAN | | That last part concerns me since if his boat is somewhere where their response would do not good why should he have to pay for a service he would not
have called on to begin with? sorry to stir the pot, just a thought...
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This is my last post to this topic. Either you get it or you don't.
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Okay I lied about that being my last post so sue me. 
There is a couple of legitimate questions about this that deserve an answer. Plus I wanted to note one more fact here just for the record.
There are 4 FD's that serve Russell County. 4 out of 4 of them operate on a subscription system outside the city limits of the 2 incorporated cities.
Eli and South Russell Vol FD's BOTH were founded and came into existance only because of their subscriptions, and they remain open and in service
today ONLY because of them. This is nothing unique to Russell County nor Kentucky. It's a method of generating revenue for FD's in rural area's that's
been used nation wide for decades. The only place I've EVER heard anyone belly ache about it is on this forum. And I'd be willing to bet that almost
everyone here who has moaned and groaned about it has at least 1 rural FD in their own home county or state that would have to shut the doors and turn
the lights off if not for the revenue generated by their annual subscriptions. And I will also point out that the $40 subscription is less than half -
and in many cases less than 1/3 - the cost of the Marine Assist membership that many of you gladly pay each year.
As to the question of whether or not your insurance company will pay the charges, I suggest you call your agent and pose that question to them. Pac22
being in the insurance business might have some insight on that too. But from my experience, some will and some won't. I've even had a couple of them
refuse to pay and tell me their client didn't have that coverage on their policy. Right or wrong, I took that to mean it's something that can be added
at extra cost to the policy holder, but again, that question is best answered by your agent.
As for the question about how much the bill is. As with everything else, it depends on the response and what's required and how long we have to remain
on scene. There is an itemized rate schedule available at city hall and I don't remember all of it. But I can tell you for sure it will be at least
$500 for a structure fire (and the rate schedule may call for $750 but I honestly don't remember). But it will almost certainly be more for a
houseboat/cruiser due to the potential environmental impact and containment/clean-up materials that would be required as well as foam and wetting
agents used.
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E_HILLMAN
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| Quote: Originally posted by kdfwr911 |
E do you have a marine assist membership?
Since I know you do, then let me ask what the difference here is in your opinion? You have the option of paying an annual membership and not being
billed in the event you need the service OR not paying a membership and being responsible for the bill in the event you need the service.
One more quixk question for you, do you have any idea how many fire depts across the entire country would have to close their doors if not for
subscriptions? I'd bet there's probably at least 1 or 2 in your home county that couldn't remain in service if not for the revenues generated by their
subscriptions. I know there's 2 in Russell county that could have never even opened if not for subscriptions, and one of them is only hanging on bu a
thread now. There's been times they've had to pass the hat among the firement just to put fuel in their truck because the small amount of tax support
they get from the fiscal court isn't enough to pay their bills for the entire year.
This is my last post to this topic. Either you get it or you don't.
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E do you have a marine assist membership?
Of course I do, he is a PRIVATE entity and I like knowing I am keeping him here. If he received tax money (or SHOULD
receive tax money) I would not have one if it was MY tax money going to him already.
You really should look into getting more $ from the county.
do you have any idea how many fire depts across the entire country would have to close their doors if not for subscriptions? I'd bet there's probably
at least 1 or 2 in your home county that couldn't remain in service if not for the revenues generated by their subscriptions.
I have no idea but I know some do. I can tell you in my county and the ones around my county they do NOT have
subscriptions. I do donate to my local volunteer squad and they also get money from the county. When they need money they ask for it but normally
the county steps in and uses our tax dollars for what they are for. So I'll take that bet lol If you don't believe me ask fellow retired officer
509.
This is my last post to this topic.
LIAR LIAR LIAR!!! :-p Where is my attorney!
Either you get it or you don't.
I get what you are saying but you might be missing what I am saying. Either make this a PRIVATE fire department that
receives no funding OR tell the county they either pony up some of that tax money or lose some easy tax payers.
........................................___
..................................___Y_Z\\____
................................+|_________/
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~
Buy Made in the USA, the job you save just might be your own.
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Pop-O_826
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OK, you convinced me. I'll join this also. I'm with the Air Evac helicopter service and marine assist. I definitely support the fire departments.
A good friend and dedicated fireman died in a storage building fire years ago in Louisville.
WILDCAT PROUD BASKETBALL- DOING IT BETTER THAN ANYONE FOR OVER 60 YEARS
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: Originally posted by E_HILLMAN | | Quote: Originally posted by kdfwr911 |
E do you have a marine assist membership?
Since I know you do, then let me ask what the difference here is in your opinion? You have the option of paying an annual membership and not being
billed in the event you need the service OR not paying a membership and being responsible for the bill in the event you need the service.
One more quixk question for you, do you have any idea how many fire depts across the entire country would have to close their doors if not for
subscriptions? I'd bet there's probably at least 1 or 2 in your home county that couldn't remain in service if not for the revenues generated by their
subscriptions. I know there's 2 in Russell county that could have never even opened if not for subscriptions, and one of them is only hanging on bu a
thread now. There's been times they've had to pass the hat among the firement just to put fuel in their truck because the small amount of tax support
they get from the fiscal court isn't enough to pay their bills for the entire year.
This is my last post to this topic. Either you get it or you don't.
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You really should look into getting more $ from the county. [/color]
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Now THERE'S an original idea. I'll go in there and smack em around a little tomorrow until they agree to give us more.
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Pop-O_826
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I remember what gave me a bad feeling about this just now. Recall a fire department setting close by and watching a persons house burn down and
because they were not members, DID NOTHING TO HELP. That is way wrong!!!!!
WILDCAT PROUD BASKETBALL- DOING IT BETTER THAN ANYONE FOR OVER 60 YEARS
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pop-O_826 | | I remember what gave me a bad feeling about this just now. Recall a fire department setting close by and watching a persons house burn down and
because they were not members, DID NOTHING TO HELP. That is way wrong!!!!! |
Agree. I can recall reading about several instances where that's happened. At least 2 that I can remember were in Tennessee.
Again, we won't do that. We're going to come and do what we can regardless and sort the rest out later. The only question is who is going to get the
bill and be responsible for payment after the fact. But we'll never refuse a non-member service if they need it.
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Captain Bob
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| Quote: Originally posted by me. | | Quote: Originally posted by Captain Bob | Thinking back to the fire at LFM about 7 years ago...
Unless your boat is within 100 feet or so of the ramp, I'm not sure how much help 15 firemen and 5-6 fire trucks are going to be.
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Probably not much Capt. that's why I said house fire, and also used a rescue situation as examples.
Don't twist my words to fit your argument.
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My apologies. I did not mean to twist words or contradict your thoughts.
I am 100% in support of ALL Fire, Police, EMS, departments and see nothing wrong with them being supported by tax money, subscriptions or simple
donations. There is also nothing wrong with them charging for services if they are not otherwise supported.
My point is that, instead of arguing how services are supported, we, as boaters, should ask ourselves: "Is it reasonable to think that a local Fire
Department could possibly prevent my boat from burning up?".
If you gain comfort or peace of mind by paying a voluntary fee, go ahead. I suggest that putting that money into insurance coverage might be a better
option because, once it starts burning, it's very likely to be a total loss.
And, no, I am not in the insurance business. However, I do know folks who lost boats to fires only to discover their coverage was inadequate.
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: Originally posted by Captain Bob | | Quote: Originally posted by me. | | Quote: Originally posted by Captain Bob | Thinking back to the fire at LFM about 7 years ago...
Unless your boat is within 100 feet or so of the ramp, I'm not sure how much help 15 firemen and 5-6 fire trucks are going to be.
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Probably not much Capt. that's why I said house fire, and also used a rescue situation as examples.
Don't twist my words to fit your argument.
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If you gain comfort or peace of mind by paying a voluntary fee, go ahead. I suggest that putting that money into insurance coverage might be a better
option because, once it starts burning, it's very likely to be a total loss.
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Not always Capt. We had a small fire start on a sailboat in a slip at JRM early one morning a couple years ago. Don't remember now exactly what time
it was, but it was before daylight. Marine Assist will probably remember the incident. Anyway, an alert employee at the marina discovered it and
called it in. JFD responded and the boat was saved without a whole lot of damage. When a small fire starts inside an enclosed cabin, the oxygen supply
is limited and the fire will not burn as quickly as when it's exposed to open air. Sometimes they'll even consume all the available oxygen and burn
themselves out. Fortunately, the marina employee did the right thing and called it in, and there was no well meaning good samaritians standing around
at that time of morning to bust in and try to put it out and give it a good source of oxygen before we got there. Otherwise it could very well have
been a MAJOR incident.
I agree with you though, that's probably not going to be the outcome in a lot of cases....maybe even most cases. But the flip side of that is what if
it's your dockmates boat 2 or 3 slips down from you? Granted, the original boat may wind up being a total loss, but hopefully not the entire row or
multiple rows. I also agree that everyone needs to make sure they have adequate insurance coverage first and foremost. And it isn't just your own boat
you need to make sure is covered. If your boat catches fire and burns up a dozen others along with the docks they're moored to, do you have adequate
coverage for that?
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kyvols
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[Pop-O_826]I'm thinking that by the time any firefighters got to my boat if it was on fire it would be way too late to save anything! As the crow
walks, I'm a 1/2 mile of walkway to get from land to my slip! Taxes I'm now paying I don't think they ought to be asking me for more.
the fire may be 5 boats away from you when it started... you'll be compalining no one came to stop it!
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Soak-up-the-Sun
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All the things I learn from this site-- glad y'all are here to debate this because I'm sponging it all in....
.....Official Lake Cumberland Tourism Director, And Purveyor To All Those Who Seek Wit, Wisdom, Whiskey And Wile While At My Bar....
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Pop-O_826
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| Quote: Originally posted by kyvols | [Pop-O_826]I'm thinking that by the time any firefighters got to my boat if it was on fire it would be way too late to save anything! As the crow
walks, I'm a 1/2 mile of walkway to get from land to my slip! Taxes I'm now paying I don't think they ought to be asking me for more.
the fire may be 5 boats away from you when it started... you'll be compalining no one came to stop it! |
OK, you convinced me. I'll join this also. I'm with the Air Evac helicopter service and marine assist. I definitely support the fire departments. A
good friend and dedicated fireman died in a storage building fire years ago in Louisville.
Obviously you didn't stay informed caused by failure to read all of the above posts. Keep up to date before you jump on my case!!!!!!!! The statement
just above was 10 posts before this one!
WILDCAT PROUD BASKETBALL- DOING IT BETTER THAN ANYONE FOR OVER 60 YEARS
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MarineAssist
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First of all, it depends on what is burning as to whether or not that particular boat, the boats arounds it, or even the marina can be saved by the
local fire department. Then add to that how long it takes for them to get the call.
I will tell you Jamestown Fire Department is probably the best trained fire department in the county and had the best equipment AND they have the
fireboat which might just save your a$$ here where they are asking for your support.
Most boaters at this lake will spill $40 worth of beer in a season, yet to be asked to support the Fire Department for the same amount is considered
outlandish, even though the majority of the boaters here have out of state registrations on their boats to circumvent the tax issue altogether.
Now consider this, whether you support them or not, they come when called and risk their own necks to save your property and your neighbors. There is
no "list" to check to tell if you paid a subscription fee or not at the time they are responding
Bottom line is, if your stuff burns and they show up and you do not have a subscription, expect a bill. Whether your insurance pays it or not is your
problem.
Roll the dice!
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