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laker53
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The entry below was copy and paste from the list you refer to in the above Boat US link. The last data entry says No/None the heading shows this entry
as boat property tax and how it is used.
No offense in my comment, and maybe I am missing something----but this list appears to be much less than reliable.
This may also be where property and ad valorem tax confusion is occuring---most folks think it is the same. The column heading refers to property
tax---in Kentucky it is technically ad valorem.
--------------
Kentucky
Maj. Charles Browning, Dept. of Fish & Wildlife None NA NA None 100% 6% / None No/ None
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mcraftman
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No offense taken. I make no claim to the validity of the data, however, most times I find BoatUS to be a very reliable source for pretty much any
boating related information.
That said, I can say for certain that the answer to the question is still no in the case of both Ohio and Tennessee, 2 states that border Kentucky. In
both these states there is no property tax on boats, and all that is required is a simple registration after the grace period. Registration is
relatively cheap in both states, and can be purchased for up to 3 years at a time.
"Not so easily shall the lights of freedom die." Winston Churchill, June 16, 1941
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kdfwr907
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| Quote: | I also agree that User Fees for the Lake in particular which pay for Lake expenses such as Patrol would be appropriate.
...................
The idea of taxing out of state boaters for Libraries seems a little odd to me. |
It is not taxing out of state boaters, it is the tax collection on the value of boats in KY. If a KY resident has a boat registered in TN, they
should still recieve a tax bill if the boat is kept in KY.
Remember, if you do not register your boat in KY, you do not provide funds for patrol TWICE! The registration fee does not go to KDFWR, then the
Coast Guard Grant money that is given out based on the number of boats registered per state, does not come to KY.
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xburnside
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Ventured out this am, ck'd my iced mail box for yesterday's mail...rec'd postcard from KY Dept of Revenue reminding me that 2012 Personal Property Tax
Return is due by May 15th. Guess giving us a 4 month warning helps us plan ahead!  
dam glad it floats our boats
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WaterWings
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| Quote: | Originally posted by xburnside
Ventured out this am, ck'd my iced mail box for yesterday's mail...rec'd postcard from KY Dept of Revenue reminding me that 2012 Personal Property Tax
Return is due by May 15th. Guess giving us a 4 month warning helps us plan ahead! |
Just a FYI for those that might not know.
The return Xburnside is talking about and what the KY Dept of Revenue is reminding you about is just the form where "YOU" declare the value of your
boat and your home port. Blank forms are linked on here somewhere. See if I can find it later.
They are not asking for money now. The county you list as the home port on the form will send you a bill in Oct or Nov.
WHATEVER floats your boat Dude!
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splashngo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by xburnside
Ventured out this am, ck'd my iced mail box for yesterday's mail...rec'd postcard from KY Dept of Revenue reminding me that 2012 Personal Property Tax
Return is due by May 15th. Guess giving us a 4 month warning helps us plan ahead! |
Got mine
also. Good thing they let me declare the value on this one!
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boathouse
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Does anyone declare their value amount @ less than the 5% depreciation allowed each year?
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Captain Bob
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| Quote: | Originally posted by boathouse
Does anyone declare their value amount @ less than the 5% depreciation allowed each year? |
Let's not miss a valuable point here. YOU, the owner, are allowed to decide the "estimated value" of your boat. I would not suggest that you
fiddle around with stuff like "Purchase price+additions+new paint+full tank of gas-scratch on hull-depreciation, etc., etc." In most cases ( based on
personal experience owning a number of boats, the PVA will accept your value if it is "in the ballpark" of similar boats.
Now, I am not a PVA authority and they have the final say. I have found it to be to your advantage to treat them respectfully. Act responsibly on
your part and you will be happy.
DO NOT take an adversarial approach or get to arguing with them or you will be unhappy. You know what I mean?
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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This makes me wonder how under valuing your boat right now for personal property tax purposes might eventually effect the resale value if you decide
to sell it?
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Captain Bob
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It's all relative..
Who's to say if a boat is over-valued or under-valued? It's a relative figure anyway. It's up to the PVA to decide if it's reasonable or not.
And the "taxable value" of a boat, a vehicle or a home generally has no impact on it's selling price. You can only sell something if a prospective
buyer is willing to give you what you are asking -or- if you are willing to sell it for what the buyer is willing to pay.
If I was in 'guvmunt, I'd be a lot more interested in collecting tax revenue than worrying over the relative value of an item. Something is always
better than nothing.
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NearlySatisfied
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I don't want to tick anyone off here and don't want this to come off the wrong way but here goes...
I am a Ky resident. With all the personal property taxes I pay on home, vehicles, toys, watercraft, ect., I shell out into five figures. I don't
know where it all goes out to, and from what I have read here, I guess some of it goes across the State and may trickle down to the L.C. region.
I'm not complaining and am obliged to pay my share what ever it is mandated to be.
But, with the economy everyone is being affected by, and with the continuing rise in slip fees, fuel costs, and just general cost of living, a lot of
boaters are basically hanging on to keep boating. If the legislators keep finding ways to increase revenue I can see a lot of boaters just giving up,
pulling or selling their boats and in turn causing an additional hardship on the local businesses and economy in the area. I would think the
difference in trying to collect property taxes and the manpower costs to administrate these collections verses the loss in outside spending in the
community would far out weigh the tax revenues.
Boating is a luxury and not a necessity. The more expensive and harder the luxury becomes to enjoy, the less people are likely to partake.
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kdfwr911 (retired)
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Captain Bob
And the "taxable value" of a boat, a vehicle or a home generally has no impact on it's selling price. You can only sell something if a prospective
buyer is willing to give you what you are asking -or- if you are willing to sell it for what the buyer is willing to pay.
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I suppose that's all true, but if you sell your home today for X dollars, then the PVA's office generally uses that figure as the taxable value for
the new owner.
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WaterWings
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| Quote: | Originally posted by NearlySatisfied
I don't want to tick anyone off here and don't want this to come off the wrong way but here goes...
I am a Ky resident. With all the personal property taxes I pay on home, vehicles, toys, watercraft, ect., I shell out into five figures. I don't
know where it all goes out to, and from what I have read here, I guess some of it goes across the State and may trickle down to the L.C. region.
I'm not complaining and am obliged to pay my share what ever it is mandated to be.
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I agree with everything you said Nearly 100%. Especially your last line there "am obliged to pay my share what ever it is mandated to be." I also want
to pay my "fair share" plus I want everyone else to do the same.
HOWEVER that's where the problem lies for a lot of folks.
The property tax on "documented" boats is:
1) not uniformly enforced, if even at all
2) an arbitrary tax that is not uniform from county to county, state to state.
3) subject to much abuse and mis-information.
4) does nothing but discourage good boaters while encourageing tax cheats
5) its a very poorly written law that should be stricken from the books and a completely new, fair, and enforceable system put in place.
For "registered" boaters the law (at least in KY) is the same for all. You supposedly pay a registration fee every year to get your new KY
decal/sticker. They determine the value and send you a bill. Don't have a decal/sticker KDFWR can and will pull you over. Everyone pays about the same
and everyone knows what to expect. With "documented" boats who knows what your supposed to pay, no one can enforce it, and its frankly a BIG mess.
WHATEVER floats your boat Dude!
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splashngo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kdfwr911
This makes me wonder how under valuing your boat right now for personal property tax purposes might eventually effect the resale value if you decide
to sell it? |
The value I give it will be a lot closer to what it would sale for than what PVA would
give it. I have a 2003 chevy truck they claim is worth over 18,000 dollars. One year it even increased in value! The first few years it was taxed at a
value more than I paid for it. The sales taxes was based on a rate more than the true price was. The sale taxes was 90% of the window sticker that was
more than the true cost of the truck. Was that a fair market value? If I was to total the truck are they going to give the price that PVA valued it
at, I don't thank so.If my boat is a total loss I will take what I told Frankfort it is worth. Also if I own the boat January 1st. and it is in
Kentucky, I owe the taxes. Even if I never use it in Kentucky waters.Like I said before there is way too many loop holes with this tax and the state
needs to come up with better way. Just my two cent.
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Hadtohavit
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Interesting question for you
| Quote: |
Definition of 'Taxation Without Representation'
A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual
representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made. This situation was one of the triggering events that spurred the original
thirteen American colonies to revolt against the British Empire.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax_without_representati...
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Ok... so I do not live in Wayne County. Do not Vote in Wayne County... cannot attempt to change Wayne County Law in any way shape or form.... but I
am obligated to pay taxes to Wayne County... Because I have Property moored on Lake Cumberland which is in the geographical boundry of Wayne County.
Does this ... or does this not work with the quote above? Your thoughts please. 
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laker53
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hadtohavit
| Quote: |
Definition of 'Taxation Without Representation'
A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual
representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made. This situation was one of the triggering events that spurred the original
thirteen American colonies to revolt against the British Empire.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax_without_representati...
|
Ok... so I do not live in Wayne County. Do not Vote in Wayne County... cannot attempt to change Wayne County Law in any way shape or form.... but I
am obligated to pay taxes to Wayne County... Because I have Property moored on Lake Cumberland which is in the geographical boundry of Wayne County.
Does this ... or does this not work with the quote above? Your thoughts please. |
I think you are missing the strict definition of one important word.
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Captain Bob
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| Quote: | Originally posted by splashngo
| Quote: | Originally posted by kdfwr911
This makes me wonder how under valuing your boat right now for personal property tax purposes might eventually effect the resale value if you decide
to sell it? |
The value I give it will be a lot closer to what it would sale for than what PVA would
give it. I have a 2003 chevy truck they claim is worth over 18,000 dollars. One year it even increased in value! The first few years it was taxed at a
value more than I paid for it. The sales taxes was based on a rate more than the true price was. The sale taxes was 90% of the window sticker that was
more than the true cost of the truck. Was that a fair market value? If I was to total the truck are they going to give the price that PVA valued it
at, I don't thank so.If my boat is a total loss I will take what I told Frankfort it is worth. Also if I own the boat January 1st. and it is in
Kentucky, I owe the taxes. Even if I never use it in Kentucky waters.Like I said before there is way too many loop holes with this tax and the state
needs to come up with better way. Just my two cent. |
Splashngo, most folks who find themselves in that situation (property is actually worth less than the PVA office tells you it is) pick up the phone
and call the PVA office. Once in a while you can do this over the phone but most times you have to be there in person.
Bring any documentation with you that you feel necessary to prove your point and then sit down with the PVA and (politely) explain why you think your
property has been over-valued. In most cases, the PVA office has never actually seen your property (exception: real estate) so they are frequently
willing to work something out with you.
You would be surprised how often this works. Sure, it takes a little effort but it sure beats just complaining and/or paying too much in taxes
--every year.
I keep mentioning the importance of being polite or respectful when dealing with the PVA. This is from personal experience. These folks hear 100
complainers a day (some very nasty) and maybe just a handful of taxpayers who act civil with them. Imagine yourself in their position. They may not
have a badge, a gun or handcuffs but, with the stroke of pen they can sure make you happy or unhappy.
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Captain Bob
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kdfwr911
| Quote: | Originally posted by Captain Bob
And the "taxable value" of a boat, a vehicle or a home generally has no impact on it's selling price. You can only sell something if a prospective
buyer is willing to give you what you are asking -or- if you are willing to sell it for what the buyer is willing to pay.
|
I suppose that's all true, but if you sell your home today for X dollars, then the PVA's office generally uses that figure as the taxable value for
the new owner. |
You are correct and that is the case here in Fayette County. When you ask them why, they will tell you: "Well the property must actually be worth
that much because the seller was willing to sell for that price and the buyer was willing to buy for that price". Makes sense.
An exception to that is when a property sells for $1.00 or some such menial price. That occurs often when transactions are within a family or
business but the PVA is smart enough to see discrepancies and will generally set the price based on similar properties inthe area.
When all else fails, all parties are able to secure professional appraisals to support their position.
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HoosierRetired
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I am curious after reading several posts on personal tax and how it is protrayed that houseboat owners with doc vessels are trying not to pay taxes
curious to what people would think if thay knew that the manufactuers brokers and bankers for years told buyers if you doc your houseboat you would
not have any personal property tax, what liability do you think they should have when they are suppose to disclose the info to the state,and county
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WaterWings
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Captain Bob
| Quote: | Originally posted by kdfwr911
| Quote: | Originally posted by Captain Bob
And the "taxable value" of a boat, a vehicle or a home generally has no impact on it's selling price. You can only sell something if a prospective
buyer is willing to give you what you are asking -or- if you are willing to sell it for what the buyer is willing to pay.
|
I suppose that's all true, but if you sell your home today for X dollars, then the PVA's office generally uses that figure as the taxable value for
the new owner. |
You are correct and that is the case here in Fayette County. When you ask them why, they will tell you: "Well the property must actually be worth
that much because the seller was willing to sell for that price and the buyer was willing to buy for that price". Makes sense.
An exception to that is when a property sells for $1.00 or some such menial price. That occurs often when transactions are within a family or
business but the PVA is smart enough to see discrepancies and will generally set the price based on similar properties inthe area.
When all else fails, all parties are able to secure professional appraisals to support their position. |
One other thing to note here guys concerning real estate property taxes. If you sell for "more" than the tax acessed value (and as
long as it is semi-reasonable as Capt Bob pointed out.) you will not have to make up the difference.
My point being if I list my boat at one fair market value on the form due in May and then sell it for a lot more in Novemeber I don't think they
will come after you. Now, if you list the value at $50,000 and sell it for $500,000 you might raise some eyebrows. In real estate the PVA sets the
value so they have to assume it is right or the PVA is out to lunch.
WHATEVER floats your boat Dude!
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Iliketoski
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Hell, I had the Wayne County PVA tell me nothing was owed, dam govt rolled right over that excuse.
As I said in the other post, my value is going to be void of everything I may choose not to sell with the boat, furniture, appliances, ropes, fenders,
etc. My choice if I would sell it "furnished". You wouldn't pay taxes on this stuff in a house, why would you in a boat.
dam glad the dam Dam is fixed. Looking forward to 705' 'ski
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Captain Bob
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| Quote: | Originally posted by HoosierRetired
I am curious after reading several posts on personal tax and how it is protrayed that houseboat owners with doc vessels are trying not to pay taxes
curious to what people would think if thay knew that the manufactuers brokers and bankers for years told buyers if you doc your houseboat you would
not have any personal property tax, what liability do you think they should have when they are suppose to disclose the info to the state,and county
|
I wondered how long it would be before this was brought up..
The fact of the matter is, for several years, many boat builders and brokers did just that. They certainly did not put it into writing and they may
not have said so in exact words but they sure did leave the buyers with the impression that, if you "Documented" your boat with the US Coast Guard,
you would NOT have to "pay (property) taxes on" your boat in the State where you live. {We all know that is incorrect now!}
The reason that I know this was true because I was one of those who bought boats (twice) thinking that was true. Stupid me (or maybe I was just
hoping..). In any event, I found out the hard way how it really works. When you have to not only pay unexpected taxes but also back-taxes plus fees
and penalties, it really gets your attention.
Now, do those builders and brokers have any liability? Who knows. And, where could you find them today anyway?
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WaterWings
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| Quote: | Originally posted by HoosierRetired
I am curious after reading several posts on personal tax and how it is protrayed that houseboat owners with doc vessels are trying not to pay taxes
curious to what people would think if thay knew that the manufactuers brokers and bankers for years told buyers if you doc your houseboat you would
not have any personal property tax, what liability do you think they should have when they are suppose to disclose the info to the state,and county
|
HoosierRetired, this is my opinion only, got no facts to back this up, but I don't think they would be liable at all and in a lawsuit they would win.
First it is up to the boat owner to decide whether to "register" the boat or to "document" it. Boats that meet certain Coast Guard requirements can do
either. Next until several years ago no one knew this was the law! What they were telling folks was true! Some Fire Chief in Jefferson County was
pi$$ed about not getting a new truck or something and then to raise money for the county he figured "HEY millions of dollars in property taxes
here...this will help me get a new truck." Its been a MESS ever since. Next something called the "Statute of Limitations" comes into play. I'm not
sure of the number of years but certain law suits have to be filed in a certain time period.
BY THE WAY...did you know when you "document" your boat you are giving the US Government the right to come and take it from you in the case of a
national emergency!! Yep, they can take it if they want and then pay you what they want.
WHATEVER floats your boat Dude!
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denmarkshepherds
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Russell County Schoolboard (who the Co. Judge Exe. said, in a nutshell, it was up to) meeting tonight 6pm.
This house still protected by GOD, guns, and German Shepherds...
'round here we speak AMERICAN!
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WaterWings
Super Administrator
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| Quote: | Originally posted by denmarkshepherds
Russell County Schoolboard (who the Co. Judge Exe. said, in a nutshell, it was up to) meeting tonight 6pm. |
 Thanks denmarkshepherds! Can you give us a report tomorrow?
WHATEVER floats your boat Dude!
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