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whitenights
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![[*]](./images/xpsilver/default_icon.gif) posted on 10-29-2009 at 01:48 PM |
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What about Trout in the lake? I heard it used to be a good place for them before the striper was stocked. The deep cold water could produce some big
ones I imagine? I used to fish Laurel lake years ago and really enjoyed the night time trout fishing.
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Bluebird
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| posted on 10-29-2009 at 01:53 PM |
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Stocking of trout in the Lake Cumberland ended many years ago when stripers became abundant.
The lake is best for striper and the river is best for trout.
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CaptainJimDurham
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| posted on 10-29-2009 at 08:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by boater4life
Thank you, striperphil. We are fortunate to have your knowledge and expertise available to us on this forum. |
I agree. Phil knows his stuff!!!
Sincerely,
Captain Jim Durham
Toll free 866-575-3770
United States Coast Guard
Merchant Marine Officer License No. 1037731
Kentucky State Guide License # 007
captainjim@striperfun.com
http://www.striperfun.com |
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yeahbuddy
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| posted on 10-29-2009 at 10:50 PM |
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Back in Clay Co. where my old practice was, my office was located right over Goose Creek which was famous for Muskie fishing. The muskies ate suckers
by the boatload. On lake Cumberland, there are no significant flats with weedbeds for Muskies to sit in ambush. Every other shield lake or highland
resiorvoir I have been to which have good populations of Muskie have such weedbeds areas. I bet Cumberland has enough shad for all the Muskies in
Kentucky but very few flats, excelpt maybe up Fishing Creek.
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FlukieLuke
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 12:18 PM |
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I am AMAZED that walleye could successfully breed in LC.
I always thought they would be constrained by the same river issues (flowing water, etc) that stop stripers from breeding successfully in a lake.
Thank you Striperphil.
Hey Striperphil, do they ALL go up the rivers... South Fork or North Fork to spawn, or do they try to spawn in the lake?
Going up the river would explain how they would be somewhat successful.
I know there is a large run every spring up the rivers. Do ALL the wally's go, or just some?
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ProVle
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 03:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by FlukieLuke
I am AMAZED that walleye could successfully breed in LC.
I always thought they would be constrained by the same river issues (flowing water, etc) that stop stripers from breeding successfully in a lake.
Thank you Striperphil.
Hey Striperphil, do they ALL go up the rivers... South Fork or North Fork to spawn, or do they try to spawn in the lake?
Going up the river would explain how they would be somewhat successful.
I know there is a large run every spring up the rivers. Do ALL the wally's go, or just some? |
They have shocked up their Walleye broodstock from the face of the Dam in the past. They do spawn in the lake, not just up the rivers.
NEVER DRINK WATER-FISH HAVE SEX IN IT-W.C. FIELDS
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striperphil
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 04:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ProVle
| Quote: | Originally posted by FlukieLuke
I am AMAZED that walleye could successfully breed in LC.
I always thought they would be constrained by the same river issues (flowing water, etc) that stop stripers from breeding successfully in a lake.
Thank you Striperphil.
Hey Striperphil, do they ALL go up the rivers... South Fork or North Fork to spawn, or do they try to spawn in the lake?
Going up the river would explain how they would be somewhat successful.
I know there is a large run every spring up the rivers. Do ALL the wally's go, or just some? |
They have shocked up their Walleye broodstock from the face of the Dam in the past. They do spawn in the lake, not just up the rivers.
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ProVle is right, walleye spawn throughout the lake, and the rip rap at the dam is one of the larger spawning concentrations. Walleye don't need a
current like stripers do. Stripers are anadromous (sp?) fish like salmon. The live in the Atlantic, but spawn in freshwater rivers flowing into the
ocean. Unlike bass or trout, they do not build a nest or a reed. The females simply release eggs and the males release milt into the current. The
eggs have to be able to tumble in the current for two or three days until the larval fish hatches. If the eggs settle to the bottom, the oxygen
supply to the egg will be lost and it will die. There's not nearly enough flowing water into L. Cumb. for this to take place. In fact, there are
very few lakes in the US where spawning is possible.
"He was an old man who fished alone in a skiff in the Gulf Stream and he had gone eighty four days now without taking a fish." Conley
Bottom Striper Guide Service http://www.conleystriper.com |
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gene
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 08:44 PM |
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Walleye,
This is what a fisheries Biologist told me about our walleye,
Originally Lake Erie strains were stocked, these were river spawning fish that did well.
They also brought in walleye from Pymatuning Lake in NW Pa, these are the strain that spawns on riprap in the main lake.
For years the brood stock was collected mainly in the rivers, one year while collecting in the headwaters of the South Fork the Dept trucks were
vandalized and a nasty note was left on the truck.
Seems some of the "good ol boys " in the area were upset that the shocking turned the bite off for a few days.
About that time the Dept discovered that they could get all the broodstock needed on the main lake without upsetting anyone.
So now all the broodstock used are Pymatuning Lake strain that do not get as large as the river strains.
The really sad part is that all broodstock collected around the State were returned to the South Fork along with 250,000 fry.
I use to catch walleye in the head off Pitman Creek in the 10-14# class every spring and lots of them!
Not anymore
NSBA record holder 99.84#
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ruffinit
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 11:12 PM |
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Nothing like a Northern Pike. We normally have to go 400 miles in to Canada to get them. Great fighting fish. We turn them loose but fun to catch. I
have reeled in Blue Gill only to have them swim in and hit the fish that I am reeling in.
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ruffinit
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| posted on 11-3-2009 at 11:13 PM |
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Photo attached
ruffinit has attached this image:
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FlukieLuke
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| posted on 11-5-2009 at 05:47 PM |
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So the lake brood stock spawns in the lake (dam rip rap) and the brood stock taken while spawning in the tributary rivers for Lake Erie (even though
they are "Lake Erie fish") tend to go upstream in the rivers to spawn... amazing.
10 to 14 pound wally's are BIG phish..... guess you'd have to cut the filet's into pieces to fry 'em up!
Those would certainly be big enough to grill, if one so desired.
It just seems that wally meat was made for fryin' !
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FireEscape
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| posted on 11-5-2009 at 05:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ruffinit
Photo attached |
The with the Pike, tell me about that boat!!!
"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles."
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Tom
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 12:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by striperphil
| Quote: | Originally posted by ProVle
| Quote: | Originally posted by FlukieLuke
I am AMAZED that walleye could successfully breed in LC.
I always thought they would be constrained by the same river issues (flowing water, etc) that stop stripers from breeding successfully in a lake.
Thank you Striperphil.
Hey Striperphil, do they ALL go up the rivers... South Fork or North Fork to spawn, or do they try to spawn in the lake?
Going up the river would explain how they would be somewhat successful.
I know there is a large run every spring up the rivers. Do ALL the wally's go, or just some? |
They have shocked up their Walleye broodstock from the face of the Dam in the past. They do spawn in the lake, not just up the rivers.
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ProVle is right, walleye spawn throughout the lake, and the rip rap at the dam is one of the larger spawning concentrations. Walleye don't need a
current like stripers do. Stripers are anadromous (sp?) fish like salmon. The live in the Atlantic, but spawn in freshwater rivers flowing into the
ocean. Unlike bass or trout, they do not build a nest or a reed. The females simply release eggs and the males release milt into the current. The
eggs have to be able to tumble in the current for two or three days until the larval fish hatches. If the eggs settle to the bottom, the oxygen
supply to the egg will be lost and it will die. There's not nearly enough flowing water into L. Cumb. for this to take place. In fact, there are
very few lakes in the US where spawning is possible. |
Ya know Striperphil... I follow your post and they are very knowledgeable but... I disagree about stripers spawning in Cumberland. Heres why... (and
I'm certainly not a "know it all") but... If stripers travel into freshwater rivers and streams to spawn then why wouldn't they do the same in
Fishing Creek (and other creeks with flowing head waters) during the spring? Now me being the way I am. I'll answer that... They do. I have been up
in the head waters many times during the spring and seen striper fry. Again, having grown up on the Chesapeake Bay and fished many or it's
tributaries I'm pretty sure of what I've witnessed here on Cumberland. With that said, all one has to do is look at the history of Lakes Gaston,
Kerr or Sante Cooper. Where Stripers spawn naturally but were "landlocked" when Dams were constructed. Those lakes still hold their "numbers" even
with moderate to heavy fishing pressure. I imagine some stocking takes place. Just as our lake does with walleye. I do believe that conditions in
Cumberland may not be sufficient to raise fry to adulthood but I believe some spawn successfully and maybe actually reach adulthood. Again, I'm not a
"know-it-all" but this is something Ill argue over.
Also, great Walleye info here.
Get-R-Wet
in
Pulaski County!!!
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skiff2380
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 11:09 AM |
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| Quote: | Ya know Striperphil... I follow your post and they are very knowledgeable but... I disagree about stripers spawning in
Cumberland. Heres why... (and I'm certainly not a "know it all") but... If stripers travel into freshwater rivers and streams to spawn then why
wouldn't they do the same in Fishing Creek (and other creeks with flowing head waters) during the spring? Now me being the way I am. I'll answer
that... They do. I have been up in the head waters many times during the spring and seen striper fry. Again, having grown up on the Chesapeake Bay and
fished many or it's tributaries I'm pretty sure of what I've witnessed here on Cumberland. With that said, all one has to do is look at the history
of Lakes Gaston, Kerr or Sante Cooper. Where Stripers spawn naturally but were "landlocked" when Dams were constructed. Those lakes still hold their
"numbers" even with moderate to heavy fishing pressure. I imagine some stocking takes place. Just as our lake does with walleye. I do believe that
conditions in Cumberland may not be sufficient to raise fry to adulthood but I believe some spawn successfully and maybe actually reach adulthood.
Again, I'm not a "know-it-all" but this is something Ill argue over.
Also, great Walleye info here. |
Lots of studies disagree with you Tom. The stripes go through the motions of spawning which is why they can be targeted in the places you mentioned
in the spring but the eggs won't develop into fry. I'm guessing the fry you see are something other than striped bass. The only reason the other
lakes you mentioned "hold their numbers" is from stocking just like right here. You need steady current which isn't provided in lakes.
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Tom
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 11:27 AM |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by skiff2380
Ya know Striperphil... I follow your post and they are very knowledgeable but... I disagree about stripers spawning in Cumberland. Heres why... (and
I'm certainly not a "know it all") but... If stripers travel into freshwater rivers and streams to spawn then why wouldn't they do the same in
Fishing Creek (and other creeks with flowing head waters) during the spring? Now me being the way I am. I'll answer that... They do. I have been up
in the head waters many times during the spring and seen striper fry. Again, having grown up on the Chesapeake Bay and fished many or it's
tributaries I'm pretty sure of what I've witnessed here on Cumberland. With that said, all one has to do is look at the history of Lakes Gaston,
Kerr or Sante Cooper. Where Stripers spawn naturally but were "landlocked" when Dams were constructed. Those lakes still hold their "numbers" even
with moderate to heavy fishing pressure. I imagine some stocking takes place. Just as our lake does with walleye. I do believe that conditions in
Cumberland may not be sufficient to raise fry to adulthood but I believe some spawn successfully and maybe actually reach adulthood. Again, I'm not a
"know-it-all" but this is something Ill argue over.
Also, great Walleye info here. |
Lots of studies disagree with you Tom. The stripes go through the motions of spawning which is why they can be targeted in the places you mentioned
in the spring but the eggs won't develop into fry. I'm guessing the fry you see are something other than striped bass. The only reason the other
lakes you mentioned "hold their numbers" is from stocking just like right here. You need steady current which isn't provided in lakes.
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And your saying that there is not steady current up in the heads during the spring season? Now, I haven't fished the heads since the drawdown but I
know what I witnessed during the heavy rained spring seasons before the draw-down. Also, I mention look at Lakes Kerr, Gaston and Sante Cooper. Maybe
not every year but under the right conditions I believe they are reproducing successfully. There is nothing to stop them.
Also, let me say that I believe Stripers have impacted the lake's other fish populations. I'm well aware conditions on Cumberland are not favorable
for Largemouth Bass but I believe numbers would be more if stripers weren't present. Also, White Bass populations would be better too. All one has to
do is look at surrounding lakes to see that. I think Stripers in Cumberland is somewhat a good thing. It generates revenue and keeps people employed.
There are allot of positives with fewer negatives so with my ".02" I think it's a good thing. I'm glad they're not in the surrounding lakes,
Dale, Laurel, G/River and Harrington. We have good diversity.
Also... Lets keep this topic alive. This spring I'll see if I can catch some of these fry I'm talking about. I could be totally wrong. I don't
think I am.
Here's an excert from an article on Kerr resevoir;
Virginians recognize this big reservoir as Buggs Island Lake, named for a tiny island that exists
below the dam. The dam itself is named the John H. Kerr Dam in honor of a Senator from North
Carolina who played a major role in encouraging the Corps of Engineers to construct the reservoir.
Quite naturally, Tarheels call the reservoir "Kerr Reservoir" or "Kerr Lake" which they pronounce
"Car."
The reservoir was completed in 1952 to serve as a flood control and hydroelectric impoundment,
backing up the Roanoke River.
The Roanoke, incidentally, was once a major spawning river for striped bass. In fact, it still is in its
lower reaches. After Kerr Darn was built stripers were stocked in the reservoir. It was later
discovered that they were spawning naturally in the two rivers, the Staunton and the Dan, that feed
into the lake.
And an excerpt from an article on Sante Cooper... Very interresting.
In South Carolina, the majority of the spawning occurs in the Wateree and Congaree Rivers, which are tributary streams of Santee-Cooper. Results of a
1983 study indicated that the Congaree River is a major spawning area while additional studies in 1987, now show that the majority of striped bass egg
production comes from the Wateree River. In 1973, the SC Wildlife and Marine Resources Department, now known as the SC Department of Natural
Resources, reported that there are five main rivers which support populations of Striped Bass: the Cooper, Santee, Congaree, Wateree, and Saluda above
Lake Murray. Excellent reservoir fisheries exist in Lakes Marion, Moultrie, Murray and Wateree. Smaller populations are found in Lakes Hartwell,
Thurmond, Secession and Greenwood. Biologist believe that a slow moving current in a short stretch of river or a faster current in a longer river may
provide the necessary time for eggs to develop and hatch. They believe that of all the state’s rivers, which empty into reservoirs, only the Congaree
and Wateree provide the correct ratio of length and flow necessary for reproduction. It should be noted that most striper populations in reservoirs
are maintained solely by stocking. This stocking benefits other game fish such as largemouth bass and crappie. The striper seeks out fish such as
gizzard shad for its main food supply, thus eliminating fish that would compete with wanted game fish (Davis, 1973).
Again I believe "sometimes" conditions can be right on Cumberland too.
Sorry... Don't mean to "highjack" the original topic here I'll start another post to see how much discussion we can generate. When I get the
time...
That is a killer Musky and I've always heard of a few in Cumberland (back on topic)
Get-R-Wet
in
Pulaski County!!!
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ProVle
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 12:03 PM |
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Tom, where would the fry show up at if the eggs and milt were released upstream and the current was strong enough to keep them suspended for three
days without sinking to the bottom and suffocate.
And yes there are a few resevoirs that have enough moving water to have a limited spawn success but Cumberland is not one of them.
NEVER DRINK WATER-FISH HAVE SEX IN IT-W.C. FIELDS
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FlukieLuke
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 04:39 PM |
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What about up the North Fork and South Fork Cumberland Rivers, upstream from the Lake?
Even with heavy rain, I doubt that even the creek heads emptying into the lake have sufficient flow for striper egg hatching... try as they may...
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striperphil
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| posted on 11-6-2009 at 08:40 PM |
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If you want to compare the water flow of the Wateree and Congeree Rivers to Fishing Ck, you'll see why they don't spawn successfully in L. Cumb. I
can't say for sure that there has never been a single striper fry hatch naturally in the lake, but I can say for certain that if it has occured, it
has been so infrequent as to be totally irrelevent. I've taken and studied fish samples and populations from this lake for a lot of years, and it
just doesn't happen to any degree. Certainly they go through the motions in the spring. That's why the bite sometimes gets so tough during the
full moon in May, but that doesn't mean they're successful. Heck, I go through the motions.......
"He was an old man who fished alone in a skiff in the Gulf Stream and he had gone eighty four days now without taking a fish." Conley
Bottom Striper Guide Service http://www.conleystriper.com |
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FlukieLuke
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| posted on 11-7-2009 at 06:05 PM |
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Uh Oh.....
do I want to hear the rest of that statement?
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BigSouthFork
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| posted on 12-12-2009 at 11:33 AM |
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I know the Big South Fork are covered with musky. I live on the TN side of the big south fork and fish the river alot, and during the fall you can't
keep them off of your lure. I'm sure a few venture down into the lake, as far as walleye go, me and my friend caught a 9 1/2 pounder this year. Will
post pic if anyone would like to see it.
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CampinMan
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| posted on 12-12-2009 at 11:47 AM |
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We always like to see fish pictures....
For some of us, its as close as we get to the fish. 
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BigSouthFork
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| posted on 12-12-2009 at 12:57 PM |
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Just posted pic of walleye my friend brandon caught.
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CampinMan
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| posted on 12-12-2009 at 04:46 PM |
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It didnt show up, maybe try again.
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BigSouthFork
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| posted on 12-13-2009 at 09:04 PM |
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I put the picture in it's own thread.
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